George Swim infantryman in the Pacific Theater
and Wanda Swim wife and mother at home in Illinois
Interviewed by Erika Reum and Corinna Morigeau
January 2001
W: This is your story
G: I cant think of all of it, its been too long ago.
W: I think all families all have different remembrancesbecause youre on different sides of the fences you know? Theres a certainexcitement to go someplace and meet new people thats what happens when youfirst get in boot camp you got some few things to learn, but the women that washome the same thing was going on, except there was a big void in their lives.Their husbands werent there anymore, and there werent very many men in thetown. We lived in a community about 5,000. It was a farming, and miningcommunity in central part of Illinois. By the time he had to go, the war hadprogressed quiet awhile. You just finished your basic training when they had thebattle of the Bulge. Do you remember? In Europe that incident was the turningpoint in Europe. From then on the war had shifted till the war was in the favorof the United States, or our allies, so he went to the Japanese theater. Becauseat the time he didnt know which way he was going to go and they were issued some kind cold weather gear to begin with. Then he hadto turn it back in to get warm weather gear because they were going toPhilippines.
Did you say you just had a baby before he shipped out?
W: We had just had our third child. At the time they pointsabout the way they drafted people. If you didnt have a family and you werehealthy, you went pretty quick andthose were the people who had the longest service time because by the time thewar started winding down they also had a points system for dismissing peoplefrom the service and some people had three or more years of very hard duty inAfrica, Italy, France, and Germany. Georges situation was completelydifferent because he was in light and he was in what was called the moping upaction in Luson in the Philippines and if it havent been for the atomic bombthey would have been the first men in there. They were in the processes of goingto Japan for that, but they ran into badstorms and that delayed the other men and thats when they dropped the atomicbomb. They were then called the army of occupation. They did go into Japan, butthey were no longer fighting the Japanese. George was overseas eleven months,but he was on water for three of those months put together because of thetransportation and the storms.So, he was closer to the navy, I think, than hewas to the army in a lot of ways, but this service was a infantry.
What is your full name?
G: George J. Swim. Sink or Swim.
When were you born?
G: In Illinois in 1914.
How oldwere you when you started in the war?
G: 28
Where have you lived most of your life?
G: Illinois
In your opinion, why were you involved in the war?
G: Everybody was involved in the war, not only the solders.The civilians and everybody else. It took in everybody. They had sugarrationing, meat rationing, all kinds of rationing. Kids collected all kinds ofmetals to be melted down for war purposes. The whole country was well involvedwith the war.
What involvement did you have in the war?
G: I was in infantry. A soldier. Walking soldier.
What sacrifices did the US citizens have to make duringthe war?
G: Lots of them. I couldnt tell you all of them.
How were the service men treated when they returnedhome?
G: Real well.
How did you fell when the war was declared?
G: I guess we all felt down hearted cause we knew what was coming. It was goingto be a big one. We didnt want to see it happen, but they let it happen. Itcould have been slowed down a little bit. Maybe it wouldve happened anyway.
What changes did you see in our country after the war?
G: Right after? Well, I didnt see much of a changeexcept we started to get automobiles again; we could get tires. Got back tocivilized life again. Then it went downhill. Its gone downhill ever since.
In youropinion what good things came from the war?
G: Hmmm.
W: You pose questions that are different than how we areused to thinking about the war. I dont know. Well have to readjust ourthinking a little bit.
How did World War II compare to the other wars that wehad since then?
G: We finished that one. We havent finished any of therest of them. That was the biggest problem. They should have finished them all,but they didnt. We havent learned anything since World War Two. We did getit over with. We did finish it. All the rest are still hanging over us.
What new weapons and ways of fighting originated in thiswar?
G: I dont know if we had any new ones. They did come outwith a silent hand grenade, but it killed more of our guys than it did theenemy. They eliminated that pretty quick. Our hand grenades, when you let loseof the handle it popped. So then anybody around you knows theres a grenadethats live. So everybody around you would hit the dirt. With a silent onenobody would know it was activated, so theyd get more of us than the enemy.So they quit that, but thats the only new one I knew of them coming out with.
W: I think during WWII all the weapons were new. I dontthink that they had fighter planes before WWII and they didnt have the navalships that were built up for WWII once we were in the war because our fleet wasreally exhausted after Pearl Harbor. They had to rebuild a lot, so at the timeall the women went to work. All the men went to the service very quickly. So,werent a lot of the weapons new?
G: Roosevelt had started building airplanes before we werein the war. He was smart enough to do that.
W: One thing I should mention, our communications in thistime are open to everyone. Our enemies and people that live in this country.Everyone knows everything because its all on TV. During World War Twopractically no one knew anything. You could be in the service and not know whereyou were going to be the next minute. And sometimes the people at home knew whatthe activity was, where the soldiers themselves didnt even know what wasgoing on. So, at that time it was very secretive. Things that were talked aboutcould mean the death of a whole unit. I think communications have changed agreat deal. Nothings secret anymore.
What types of communication did you use during the war?
Radio. Radio was all we had. And man to man. Just talking.
Were you ever afraid during the war? If so what scaredyou the most?
G: No, not exactly. We were on the alert 24 hours a day.Had to be. The Japs liked to fight night anyway. I mean the Japanese. At timesyou wondered, but you couldnt worry about it. You were there. You had towatch your back all the time. You always had a tail gunner looking the otherdirection so somebody couldnt get you from the rear end.
Did you have the opportunity to meet any new peopleduring the war?
G: Oh yeah. Quite a few. Ive kept in touch with justone. Well two. We lost track. Theyre spread all over the country. I dontknow where they are anymore.
W: People who served in units got very well acquainted,they stayed together. Infantry people were just spread into the units they wereneeded in. They lost a lot of people in combat in the infantry in Japan becausethere were so many of private first class and when he was mustered out just 11months later, he was a staff sergeant which meant that there where a lot ofpeople killed and you moved up in your unit because it was necessary forsomebody to be a leader. He made it sound like it wasnt very frightening, butI think it would be pretty frightening to have to sleep in a jungle all the timeand have all the diseases that you get. Short term he didnt have any of that.People that were in the wet and mud all the time had a different problem becausethey picked up all these parasites that they had to fight as well as soldiersand snipers. But snipers were the biggest problem you had, right?
G: Yah, I guess so. They were always looking for the manwith the rank. That why in the service you never were a rank or anything,because thats the guy the snipers were looking for. In fact we lost ourgeneral up there on the pass. It had been secured they thought but it wasnt.There was still one up there. He got the general.
What kind of weapons did you use?
G: Well all I had was the M-1 rifle. But in our squad wehad the BAR.[Browning Automatic Rifle] In fact we got down to four people in oursquad one time. Just our squad leader and assistant and the BAR man and theammunition man who was the tail gunner also. That is all we had.
What were the medical facilities like during the war?
Well, I was lucky. I didnt have to go in any, so Idont know about that.
W: They didnt have helicopters in those days to evacuatepeople who were wounded. So that has changed a lot. No they can get people outmore quickly.
Was there a drug problem with any of the service men atthis time?
G: Well there was smoking, but no drugs. Not that I knowof. I never heard of it. We had plenty of smoking though. In fact they gave youcigarettes if you wanted them.
W: Tell them what you did with yours.
G: I sold mine to the Japanese. We went in first with theRawlies. They had the shiny paper on them. Next time we went in they wanted theones with the round dot. They wanted the Luckys. They already found out theywere better cigarettes. Even though they couldnt talk theyd tell us[through hand signals]. Of course they looked like the rising sun, too, so maybethats why they wanted it. I dont know. So we made a little money that way,off the Japs. Got a little bit back, but very little. We sold them soap and soldthem sugar. That stuff they hadnt had for years.
What types of things was the US government warningcitizens about at this time?
Well during the war it was mostly just warning aboutsabotage and stuff like that.
W: In the Midwest there were a couple of things happeningin the country that we didnt anything about. After we moved to Montana peoplewere talking about the war and were finding out people on the west coast weredealing with completely different things than we were because they had theballoons up to secure the coast. So early warning signals and we didnt haveto deal with that back in the Midwest and we didnt have any evacuees like theJapanese that were interned here in Missoula and some other places. We justdidnt have that going one in the Midwest. We were just too far away from bothcoasts.
What was your job during the war?
Walking. That was my job. Walking and carrying a rifle.Eliminate the enemy. Get him before he gets you. They used to tell you over hereyou are supposed to say, Halt, who goes there? When we got overseas theysaid say, Halt. Bang. Who went there. Get him. Dont trust him. Hecant be trusted.
What did you do before the war started?
Well, I worked in an aircraft factory in St. Loius buildingairplanes.
What did you do after the war?
What did I do first? I went into plumbing I guess. I was aplumber.
What places did you get to visit during the war?
Well I guess you could call it visiting. I was shipped toNew Guinea. To Lai Tai. On to Lou Zong and then to the occupation of Japan. Icame into the US at Seattle. I was discharged in St. Louis. I didnt get tovisit any of them. They put up there. I didnt get to do any visiting. Ididnt get any passes. I wasnt to get a pass to Tokyo, but they shipped meout before I got the chance to.
Were you married during the war?
Yes.
Did you have any friends of relatives in the war?
Yeah, my brother. My cousins. Thats about all I guess.
Did you have any German or Japanese friends?
No. No.
What things did you lose during the war?
We lost a lost of men.
W: I dont think it affected us as much as some. Hisshort time being in the service probably didnt affect our family too much. Wehad a stable family unit before he went to the service so he came back and wasagain in the family. It was better for us because he wasnt away from home allthe time. For two years, three years when he was building airplanes before thathe would come home for just a fewhours and then go back. We livedabout a 100 miles from St. Louis and he had to be there all the time on theevening ship and they were working 7 days a week, so you have to take a day offif you had to see dentist or a doctor.
Do you think it was worth it?
No. No it wasnt worth it. It just put us in debt a longways. We lost a lot of men. It sure wasnt worth it. No.
Was there a better way to solve the worlds problems?
I dont know.
W: There had to be. Most wars are started because of thepolitics. If we were having an invasion here tomorrow of course you are going topick up a gun and fight for your life. But thats a different thing thangetting involved in somebody elses war. That political and I think it shouldbe solved in a political way. I dont think we gained anything by going outand having a war. I dont think it benefited anyone. Most of our enemiesbenefited more than we did. The Marshal Plan was put into use right after WorldWar Two and it was to help rebuild all of the countries we had destroyed and itwas so wasteful. Think what we could do with all the money we spend building upour arms. You could just do so much for people.
Did you ever think of escaping and going back home?
We all wanted to be back home, but we couldnt escape anyplace.
W: The pacific was a long way to swim.
G: Thats a big body of water. Yes we all wanted to gohome, but we didnt want to go AWOL. No.
Hotel in Esch sur AlzetteWhere you ever afraid for your life during this time?
No, I dont think so. Not too much. Didnt have time.Things happened pretty fast.
How did the rest of your family feel about the war?
W: Lonely. It was a hard time to be standing by at home andnot being able to do anything or communicate with anyone. We had a lot ofproblems just tying to keep our families feed, but it wasnt nearly as bad asin countries where war was actually being fought on the streets. Where theydidnt know where their next potato was going to come from. It was a verydifficult time for those people, and I think the American people have no ideawhat it would be like to be invaded.
Where they worried about you getting hurt or killed?
Oh sure they worried, but thats all. Afraid.
W: There was nothing you could do about it, they were gone.The only thing you could do was pray for their safety and hope you didnt geta telegram from the army. Living in a small town, we didnt have too manypeople lost in the war. There just wasnt a large group of people involved inthe service and some of them were farmers so they didnt go into the military.
Tell me about your family.
The first girl was born in 30. Then the boy was born in41. Then the last girl was born in 44. I always said I started World WarOne, and our son started World War Two. He was born in 41 when the warstarted. He was born December 2nd and the 7th is when they bombed us.
Do you have any stories youd like to tell.
G: Ahhh. No. No. I dont really have any stories. Imnot really a talker.
W: Tell them about Private Half-Pint.
We had a little monkey. He was our mascot. Thats when wewere in rest area. That son-of-a-gun, I think he could smell a banana 40 milesaway. Wed put the bananas way up someplace in the tent and that son-of-a-gunwould go right up after it. He was just a little bitty old monkey. I donteven remember where we got him. Then we had a big billy goat in the camp too andwhen wed get this jungle rotsores youd get on you, you couldnt getrid ofand they had some kind of purple medicine, I dont know what it was.Anyway, we fixed that old billy goat up and put a G on the side of him. Thatthing would go right on through the headquarters cause wed didnt havedoors over there. Its just wide open. That old billy goat hed just tromp onthrough. That was our mascot too, along with the monkey.
We were stuck on a hill for two weeks. The Japs had us cornered up there.They had a canon up there shooting down on us. When we did finally break loose,we went to the steam and we had soluble coffee. It was cold coffee. Wecouldnt build any fire. So we had soluble coffee and we shaved and we tookbaths and everything and filled our canteens. Then we started up the creek. Wegot up there about 200 yards and there were two great big, old juicy Japs abouthalfway in the water. [dead bodies] And we had just filled our canteen downthere below. So thats when we put halazone pills in our canteens thatssupposed to kill all the germs. But we lived through it. We made it.
How did you feel about the bombing of Pearl Harbor?
G: Well theyd threatened to do something for a long.What were they fightin about, imports? What was it the Japs was hollerinabout before the war?
W: I dont know. Until you get involved in a situation,its all something that is happening in Washington and youve got to payattention to whats happening in Washington. These things were going on, butwe didnt understand the significance of the political situation at that time.We didnt know that they were leading up to a war.
What are your feelingabout the Japanese internment camps that existed in the United States during thewar?
G: Well, It was kind of a bad thing, but they had a lotof spies around too, so you couldnt trust them too much. I dont think weknew too much about that until way after the war.
W: We probably learned more in the last couple years aboutwhat was going on that we knew at the time. We didnt have any idea what wasgoing on.
G: They didnt have television them. Radio yes, but itdidnt really come out. We didnt really know about it.
W: If we wanted to have any new of the war wed go to themovie theater maybe twice a week and theyd have short subjects about the warthat maybe lasted 15 minutes and that was about all you knew about what washappening in the war.
Have any of your children joined the service?
No. Our son chose the reserves, but he chose not to go intothe military full time.
How has the government repaid you for the time you spentserving your country?
Well, Illinois gave us a bonus. Cant remember how muchit wasnt anymore. 200 or 300 hundred dollars or something. Thats about allwe got out of it.
W: One benefit we did take advantage of was a home loan. Wegot a loan to buy some property.
What we did we do to make sure we werent attacked athome?
People volunteered to watch for bombers. I cant remember what that organization was called. Thats too longago.
W: I remember my big thing in the war was to registerpeople so they could get stamps for sugar allowance and things like that.
Were people angry after the war?
No I dont think so. They were just happy it was over. Sothey could get back to civilized living again.
W: one thing that was so different than what there wasafter Korea, was everyone during World War Two was really making sacrifices tosee that the men were well taken care of either through supplies orentertainment. Try to make them feel at home when they were way off from home.After World War Two, maybe because there were so many veterans and the war wasso fresh that when Korea came people didnt support that war. And Vietnamcame. They didnt support the wars. They didnt support the servicemen. Andit was a small minority of the population that were involved and they were notpopular wars by any means and people decided Ill get out of this any way Ican. And the civilian population was not supportive. So when these veteranscame home they were almost ridiculed for having served in the war, and this wasnot the war in was during World War Two. Everyone who came home was a hero itseemed like.
G: But they were police actions. They werent wars. Wenever did declare war.
How tough was it to get into the service during the war?
W: You had to be breathing.
G: If they looked in one ear and couldnt see on throughyou were in. No, it wasnt too tough. I guess foot problems and eyes were thetwo main things that held people back. If you had bad feet you couldnt walkvery far, so they didnt need you. Or if you could see.
W: Or if you were a bed wetter. That was one reason theywouldnt take you.
Uppsala hotel roomsIs there anything you wished you could change about thewar?
I wish it had never started. Somebody else started it, butI dont know how we could change it. I dont know. I cant answer that.Ill have to take the fifth amendment on that.
Did many of the veterans go to college after the war wasout?
Oh sure, lots of them.
W: Not as many in his age group as in mine. I graduatedfrom high school in 1939 and almost all of my class went to college if theycould, but soon after the war they were really ready for college education.
Was it hard to forgive the enemies we fought against?
[long pause] Yea. It still is. I dont know. You have tobuy Japanese stuff, but I dont buy any more of it than I have to. But youcant get away from it anymore. Its all mixed up in everything. But, itskind of hard. Yea, its hard to do that. I didnt know about the Germans,because I didnt have anything to do with the Germans. But the Japanese, Yes.
Describe your homecoming. What did you do first?
I meet her in St. Louis. I was discharged in St. Louis,Jefferson Barracks, and met her at the train station. Had to drive 100 mileshome.
W: I can tell you how I felt about it. I had to drive thehundred miles to St. Louis and this train station was a very big train stationand it was full of uniforms and I dont know how you can tell the people thatyou love in a big crowd like that, but they just pop out at you and there youare and everything is all right again after along time of being a part. Itsgoing to be okay now.
Did you agree with the decision to drop the atomic bombon Japan?
Oh Yeah. Yep, sure did. Saved my neck I guess. We weresupposed to go in at Nagasaki. We were trained to go in to invade there. I wasthere in the Philippines when they dropped the bomb. They dropped the first oneand they said oh it devastated so many blocks. We said ohh, they dont havebomb that will do that. We thought that was all bologna. Then they dropped thesecond one. Then they kind of woke up. Then it was the surrender terms.
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